Atheists won't go to Hell?

[Logikal]

What would you say if I told you that atheists won't go to Hell according to the Bible? It's crazy to say that because so many "Christians" are quick to tell an atheist that they are going to Hell for not believing, but it says right in the Bible what will happen to them. Let me explain.

There is a verse in the Bible that is so ubiquitous that it has entered into our pop culture. You've seen it on bumper stickers and shirts. You've read it on signs along the highway, and you may have even read it in the Bible once or twice. It is such a prominent verse that it is often called the "Bible in a Nutshell" playing on the popular book series. The verse I am refering to is John 3:16.

Differences in translations will word it differently but I will recite it as I remember it.

"For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son; For whosoever shall believeth in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life"

The Bible is all about interpretations, and the Christian faith often interprets this verse differently, but I think I interpret in the most logical way.

God loved the world so much that he gave his son's life for it. And whoever on this world believes in Jesus will not die but live forever. This means that if you believe in Jesus you will have an afterlife (a new life after you die). Now many Christians try to interpret this as saying that if you believe in Jesus you will go to Heaven and if not then you will go to Hell, but the fact is that that makes no sense at all. First of all, it makes no sense because the verse says that if you believe you will live forever, which means that if you don't believe then you will simply perish. And to spend eternity in Hell would mean that you have everlasting life because you will be spending it in Hell. You can only have everlasting life if you believe in Jesus according to the verse. Secondly, how do you get into Heaven? Does simply believing in Jesus get you into Heaven? No! We all know that. You have to do this and that and whatever you have to do ON TOP OF believing in Jesus. So the typical Christian interpretation contradicts the teachings of other parts of the Bible that way.

So basically if you don't believe in Jesus (like atheists don't) then you will simply die when your life here on Earth is over. That doesn't sound too bad. After all, I would rather spend one life here on Earth than risk spending eternity in Hell simply because I believed in Jesus.

I actually wrote something about this on my blog (I swore I would never write one).

Here is a link: http://thinkinglogikally.blogspot.com/

[Make~Sensi*]

Heaven is to be with God.
Hell is to be without God.

That is the Catholic Teaching.

I personally believe Atheists will be judged upon their actions and if the person has been good he will still go to heaven. God is more logical and clever than we could imagine...Surely he doesn't expect us to believe what another Human says to be true.

[MANE]

"For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son; For whosoever shall believeth in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life"

I'll take a shot at logic..

When stated, 'for whosoever shall believeth in Him shall not perish', belief is not meant to be solely literal in the sense that we believe he existed, and rose from the dead; but rather, we believe in the goodness that Jesus embodied. We accept this goodness over evil, unto the point of sacrifice. In doing so, we transcend evil into the heavens, and have everlasting life.

[Logikal]

But can you not agree with something and yet act against it? Anyway, the point was that you had to stretch to reach that conclusion. From my point of view the most straight forward meaning is what I have put forth. It's not to say that the meaning I took from it is what the authors intended, but it is the most logical interpretation of the information given.

Make~Sensi*, I think that is how it should be, but like you said that is merely what you believe. Others believe differently. I try to be a good person even towards those who who don't deserve my good graces, but if one religion is true over another then according to most of them the non-believers and those who believe in other faiths will be punished regardless of how they lived their lives. It's an unfortunate polarization clause in most religions. It makes the believers hold fast to that belief because they know that there is no refuge outside of it. Basically it is used to keep people from switching or questioning faiths.

[MANE]

From my point of view the most straight forward meaning is what I have put forth. It's not to say that the meaning I took from it is what the authors intended, but it is the most logical interpretation of the information given.

I see, but In that case-
Fundamentalists have simply put forth the most straight forward and logical interpretation of the information given. In fact, Adam lived 930 years, and his son Seth lived 912 years.

With the information given, I can agree that your case is logical, but it disregards the context in which the scriptures were written; it is a piece of a greater reality, and by no means is separate.

Subjective logic holds no case against stretched interpretation.

[Red Tha Baron]

:roll:

but it is the most logical interpretation of the information given.

nah, it is not. you looked for a loophole, so you could have a edgy opinion.

but lets look at more of the passage & not jus 1 line.

3:16 For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 3:18 The one who believes in him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God. 3:19 Now this is the basis for judging: that the light has come into the world and people loved the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds were evil. 3:20 For everyone who does evil deeds hates the light and does not come to the light, so that their deeds will not be exposed. 3:21 But the one who practices the truth comes to the light, so that it may be plainly evident that his deeds have been done in God.

clearly, believerz will live eternally in the kingdom of god. there is no secret halftruth.

[Cats_Pajamas]

Logikal.......

If you want to break down the passage, you're wrong about being able to simply believe in Jesus Christ and goto heaven.

"For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son; For whosoever shall believeth in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life"

Okay, so if you believe in Jesus, you also believe in Heaven and Satan and Hell.

Both of which will amount to eternal life.

So in a sense, if you do believe in Jesus, then yes, you will have eternal life. But your actions will determine whether you will enjoy your eternal life, lol.

[Cats_Pajamas]

Furthermore, if you realize your villiany, you are better off to be an atheist, according to that paticular verse.

[kolya]

Heaven is to be with God.
Hell is to be without God.

That is the Catholic Teaching.

I personally believe Atheists will be judged upon their actions and if the person has been good he will still go to heaven. God is more logical and clever than we could imagine...Surely he doesn't expect us to believe what another Human says to be true.

Hell is also to be with Satan according to the Roman Papa

The bit in bold is nothing more than wishful thinking, which I respect, but which holds no philosophical weight.

I could just as easily say, "surely god expects us to have robot sex with virgin koala bears daily."

mmmmmm

[kolya]

:roll:

but it is the most logical interpretation of the information given.

nah, it is not. you looked for a loophole, so you could have a edgy opinion.

but lets look at more of the passage & not jus 1 line.

3:16 For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 3:18 The one who believes in him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God. 3:19 Now this is the basis for judging: that the light has come into the world and people loved the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds were evil. 3:20 For everyone who does evil deeds hates the light and does not come to the light, so that their deeds will not be exposed. 3:21 But the one who practices the truth comes to the light, so that it may be plainly evident that his deeds have been done in God.

clearly, believerz will live eternally in the kingdom of god. there is no secret halftruth.


And what was the 'Kingdom of God' in the time of Jesus? No, it was not a spiritual planet where invisible consciencesses inhabit, but a sort of empire (caliphate, for you islamofascists) where Jews would rule, later determined to be a time of a thousand years(revelations). It was a peaceful rule btw, but nonetheless a rule, and henceforth all other religions and ethnic groups would necessitate a subjuation.


Sounds dope.

[kolya]

From my point of view the most straight forward meaning is what I have put forth. It's not to say that the meaning I took from it is what the authors intended, but it is the most logical interpretation of the information given.

I see, but In that case-
Fundamentalists have simply put forth the most straight forward and logical interpretation of the information given. In fact, Adam lived 930 years, and his son Seth lived 912 years.

With the information given, I can agree that your case is logical, but it disregards the context in which the scriptures were written; it is a piece of a greater reality, and by no means is separate.

Subjective logic holds no case against stretched interpretation.

See my above ish for 'context in which the scriptures are written.'
The fact is, whoever wrote the scripts presents a conundrum for the average person, who of course operates by reason and logic, because it would be impossible to function without the two.

And you are right in saying that the statements are 'subjective logic.' But the damn problem is that in a selection of texts presented as the objective knowledge and guide to morality, everyone has their own opinion; the Bible also contradicts itself, but that is marginal.

So essentially the argument for the respect and study of the Bible(though some parts are exemplary for their time, no doubt) is that, if you don't, you'll be punished. And since whoever is telling you that you will be punished has a subjective opinion, fuck!

(Unless of course you believe God wrote the Bible or the holy spirit inspired it, in which case, why are we even having this argument if you worship an all-powerful god).

So my point is, everyone has their own opinion, so you should leave each other alone. But you can'T leave eachother alone because this is such an important subject(like, infinity years and shit). So, any god who would present you with this moral predicament of this nature is either::::: ! :::

1)an asshole
2)weak (and therefore, not god, look it up)
3)a douchebag

So just don't worry bout it, just rant everyonce inna while and degrade everyone you meet for their ridiculous views.


/rant.

[Red Tha Baron]

:roll:

but it is the most logical interpretation of the information given.

nah, it is not. you looked for a loophole, so you could have a edgy opinion.

but lets look at more of the passage & not jus 1 line.

3:16 For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 3:18 The one who believes in him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God. 3:19 Now this is the basis for judging: that the light has come into the world and people loved the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds were evil. 3:20 For everyone who does evil deeds hates the light and does not come to the light, so that their deeds will not be exposed. 3:21 But the one who practices the truth comes to the light, so that it may be plainly evident that his deeds have been done in God.

clearly, believerz will live eternally in the kingdom of god. there is no secret halftruth.


And what was the 'Kingdom of God' in the time of Jesus? No, it was not a spiritual planet where invisible consciencesses inhabit, but a sort of empire (caliphate, for you islamofascists) where Jews would rule, later determined to be a time of a thousand years(revelations). It was a peaceful rule btw, but nonetheless a rule, and henceforth all other religions and ethnic groups would necessitate a subjuation.


Sounds dope.


nah, ur wrong.

[Divine Write]

I didn't read everything everyone had to say...Frankly you guys have to say a lot and I'm lazy...

All I know is the basis of what Logikal is trying to get at...And technically speaking he's right...The Bible makes no reference of Hell as we know it...All that we preceive of Hell comes from The Divine Comedy of Dantes Inferno...There the picture of fire and brimestone is laid out...That book also put forth the seven levels of Hell...

The Bibles words of anything resembling Hell is darkness...It states (and I'm paraphrasing) God is light...The further you are from God the closer into darkness you become...

[Red Tha Baron]

I didn't read everything everyone had to say...Frankly you guys have to say a lot and I'm lazy...

All I know is the basis of what Logikal is trying to get at...And technically speaking he's right...The Bible makes no reference of Hell as we know it...All that we preceive of Hell comes from The Divine Comedy of Dantes Inferno...There the picture of fire and brimestone is laid out...That book also put forth the seven levels of Hell...

The Bibles words of anything resembling Hell is darkness...It states (and I'm paraphrasing) God is light...The further you are from God the closer into darkness you become...

incorrect, why do u idiotz believe u know the bible when u clearly arent educated in scripture.

hell is never described with fire ?

Mark 9:43 = If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out
Matthew 25:41 = Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Revelations 20:14-15 = Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire

also, logikal isnt even close to right.

[Cats_Pajamas]

Well, don't you guys feel dumb. :P :lol:

[kolya]

The 'hell' described is more appropriately called 'Sheol', a name for the Underworld. The Underworld was kind of like the same in Hellenistic, Greek culture (Hades).

But Divine Write is not wrong; alot of the conventional wisdom of hell comes from Dante's Inferno.

[DaRealRapDog]

Ya'll can debate w/e you want.. but who's gonna debate when you die and all their is.. is forever darkness.
I mean "IF" their's a heaven then I doubt anyone would be wearing clothes since human's created clothing.. so heaven would be like a nudist camp? sound's more like a cult to a "HEAVEN" and.. we as in humans created what's "GOOD" and what's "EVIL" by making laws.... So therefor.. The hole "devil-bad & GOD-good thing.. doesn't really make sense does it? And I don't think GOD just started dropping bibles out of the sky did he? nope! another "HUMAN BEING" wrote it That's if their is such thing as a "GOD"... Imagine if there isn't? .. and you wasted most of your life to worshipp something that isn't real?
...So if GOD has never shown himself or voiced himself.. All you have is FAITH? well I have faith in pokie machines.. and they cheat me out of my money.
You could be believing in something that's completley false.. living a life somebody else wants you to live.. missing out on precious fun that a person needs in there short life!
So before you bible bash me.. think about what your religion is stopping you from doing.. if it gives you strength.. by all means keep believing...But all It does is give you false hope.. I don't believe in any religion.. I believe in reality and the realness of reality is enough to give you strength.

/

[GTech]

I shall see what happens to my soul when i perish from this world..

[surprise]

ah yes but the Egyptians believed, for good reason, that perishing is the worst fate possible. Think about it, hell offers the chance at afterlife and eventual "parole." Perishing means you are gone without even having the chance to suffer it out.