Defining God.

[Massa Deep]

Not to believe in the exsistence of God is therefore to BELIEVE that He does not exsist, hence, that becomes your BELIEF, faith or 'Religion', and this is the origin of Atheism.
To define God, we must first acknowledge the fact that he exsists. Doubt and definition creates error, because doubt affects the definition, due to one's blinded or biased perception of a topic.

God, is the Supernatural being conceived as the perfect, the omnipotent and omniscient Originator and Ruler of the Universe.

Genesis 1, as many would recall, says:
In the Beginning, God created the Heaven and the Earth.

To the majority, understanding of this simple, universally-well-known Bible verse seems obvious. God, the Ruler of the Universe created the Heavens and the Earth, and that's it.
Well, yes, such is truth, but note.. God CREATED these things. A construction company CREATES or BUILDS a building, laying down its foundations and eventually initiating the construction of its floors.
But does a construction company design the Building?..

Now I shall introduce you to the Artictect.


John 1:1-3 is a the key to Revelation of Genesis 1:1
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2]He was with God in the beginning. [3] God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him.

In the Beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.. As a Christian, one would reliaze that the Word refers to the Son of God, Jesus Christ. Further understanding Reveals that the WORD OF GOD IS NOT THE BIBLE. Jesus is refered to as the Word of God because he defines what we understand. Humans understand words, we can never understand God, only his WORD, which is Jesus Christ, who represents the physical part of the Trinity.

Verse 3 provides the revelation, and Introduces us to the Artictect. The Artictect was the One who designed earth, the Universe and all that is in it, even us humans. God DID NOT design the Universe, he CREATED it and verse 2 proves this.

God created EVERYTHING THROUGH HIM, and NOTHING WAS CREATED EXCEPT THROUGH HIM.
Note, the second part implies that God could not create anything, unless it was done Though him, Him being The Word, which is Jesus Christ.
Everything was created through him, just as a Construction company must build a building through the Artictects decisions and approval.

We come to the simple conclusion that, God is the Creator of us and our Universe, and the Word, which is Jesus Christ, was one who Designed it and us.
From this many debates have surfaced, over the Divinity of the Trinity. Was God in submission to his Son at earths creation?

Also from this we learn that, everything that is to be created pre-exsists in the Word, for as scripture says, nothing was created except throught Him. Nothing is new to the Trinity, and explains how they know the Future.

--

Just a something extra from the Book of Job, Chapter 38 where God speaks about his Divinity and Magnitude..

Then the LORD answered Job out of the storm. He said: [2]"Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge? [3] Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me. [4]Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. [5] Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? [6]On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone- [7]while the morning stars sang together and all the angels [a] shouted for joy? [8]"Who shut up the sea behind doors when it burst forth from the womb, [9]when I made the clouds its garment and wrapped it in thick darkness, [10] when I fixed limits for it and set its doors and bars in place, [11] when I said, 'This far you may come and no farther; here is where your proud waves halt'? [12] "Have you ever given orders to the morning, or shown the dawn its place, [13] that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it?


My opinion only matters when others agree with it, opinion therefore evolves into fact, and fact is an illusion.
Please tell me your thoughts on this Revelation of a Creator and the Artictect, because the Bible holds many more mysteries about our creation and exsistence, many of which are hidden. And because of our ignorance and 'perception' to wordly things we cannot see.

[MANE]

Interesting
That last quote is powerful..

Follow my steps of logic, and let's observe and take part in the dance of hypostasis.

First off, one may not believe in the existence of God and not be athiest; hence, there are agnostics.
Secondly, we may take a secular approach to this topic by defining God under a theoretical basis, so as to avoid certain error.

Truth is perceived in many forms and subjects, and is completely relative within each manifestation; therefore, science is fair game to augment our understanding of God within the bible scriptures.
If God is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient then we must identify a natural force that is of equal traits.
Next, we must observe a direct affiliation between this force and that which allows it to manifest; for, "God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him".
Ah, now the dance begins to take on character.
Observe:

"[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2]He was with God in the beginning. [3] God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him."

With that, we may assume that the force we search for is multidimensional, and is self-sufficient within symbiotic manifestations.
Now, we must search for a single force that supports a cause for existence within the cause. [And latter, obscure reality in pondering the redundancy of cause and effect in the face of God.]

Aha!
Now we have a running (in circles) formula to define God; the definition is the formula itself, or the essence of the formula.
We articulate that God is beyond articulation.

[Massa Deep]

Well,

one may not believe in the existence of God and not be athiest; hence, there are agnostics.

But not to believe in the exsistence of God, means you have to BELIEVE that he does not exsist. You may retain yourself from being called an Athiest, but you become one with this belief. Even Agnostics or Agnosticism, which is based on two of Huxley's main beliefs that God is unknown and unknowable. But the fact of the matter is, such belief must take place, hence my point being emphasized.

we may take a secular approach to this topic by defining God under a theoretical basis, so as to avoid certain error.

To look into and try and define God from a secular point of view affects the overall definition of God, just as a Christian would. Both views are based on influence, whether its Spiritual, mental or physical. God may be viewed in many different ways by all sorts of masses, so there will always be error, unless truth is certain in the minds of any individual.

Basically, to define God, you base your definition of God on what knowledge you have of Him. Therefore, opinions exsist.


. . . I'll come back to this MANE, kinda got called, be back soon..

[Bull-Pup]

Translating from the Quran,I can quote,"God is the only god,the everlasting,has not been born nor does he give birth,and to him none are equal."

This means that God is the beginning of creation,yet has not been created.

It is also said that he designed the universe and created it in the Quran,I couldn't find the quote though.Sorry.
This would mean that he is the architect of our universe and its builder.

To believers,God is there.Yet not all believers define God in the same way.Some call him the perfect benefactor of all creation,some say he is the shepheard etc...
Yet for one being to have so many definitions,it means that he is not 100% known to the people.

This paradoxically concludes that God is unknown,yet known through faith.

"Islam" means "submission",therefore it is giving in to a certain force.This force is God,Allah,the one and only.But to submit is without constraints nor negotiations.That means God has not revealed all what he is,but has revealed only enough for us to create a forked road...Belief and Non-Belief.

Therefore God is a paradox in definition,and if he has put us to the test,he has done it in a perfect way.He has made himself grey,not black nor white,and therefore has put us in the position of choosing belief or non-belief.

On my part,that makes me a believer.

[kolya]

Not to believe in the exsistence of God is therefore to BELIEVE that He does not exsist, hence, that becomes your BELIEF, faith or 'Religion', and this is the origin of Atheism.

Nope, i'm an agnostic. I don't believe in God or disbelieve in God. God is in a permanent catharsis of maybe-existence. And although i sincerely doubt that God exists, i can definetely say that it doesn't, because every logical structured method we use to debate God may be a farce created by God. So the reality we choose to debate may not be reality.


To define God, we must first acknowledge the fact that he exsists.

Also incorrect, or do unicorns exist?

Your whole argument sort of falls apart after your premise, so, ima make a new thread.

[The Professional]

MANE - is it just me, or was that a long winded way of saying that humans are unable to comprehend God simply because we're human? lol. I swear sometimes when you post its like a mathemetician giving the proof for 1+1=2. Not a bad thing, just something I observed.

[Maldito1]

There's no "God"...

[MANE]

MANE - is it just me, or was that a long winded way of saying that humans are unable to comprehend God simply because we're human? lol. I swear sometimes when you post its like a mathemetician giving the proof for 1+1=2. Not a bad thing, just something I observed.

haha
hence I stated,
"Follow my steps of logic, and let's observe and take part in the dance of hypostasis."
just making a point.
Good observation, though.

[Young_Ghost]

There's no "God"...

Thank you Maldito for another thoughtful response...


Even Agnostics or Agnosticism, which is based on two of Huxley's main beliefs that God is unknown and unknowable.

True

But the fact of the matter is, such belief must take place, hence my point being emphasized.

False...
Though Agnosticism is based on Huxley's beliefs, it is not a religion and therefore is not held to following those beliefs. So, yes, Agnostics can believe that God PROBABLY does not exist, but do not rule out the possibility that one does... as kolya said

Im interested in the fact that everyone assumes the archetype of the "All-powerful, All-knowing, Everlasting God." If you base your definitions of "God" on that approach, then you have already defined God before you even started.

To attempt to define something that is in essence undefinable, you have to first erase all assumptions or things that have a large possibility of being misunderstood. Things such as the Bible and the Quran make their own attempt to define god (which is almost the same definition). But they come with their own amount of uncertainty because of the length of time since they were written, the number of times they were re-written, and translated, on top of all that their are various authors, whose situations are unknown outside of their writing...

^^
As an example of what im saying the book War of the Worlds(1953) was a fictional piece that was later done as a radio drama, yet through circumstances of the times, it was believed to be real and caused wide-spread panic.

Im just saying that its impossible to know what of what was written is not exactly true or if things are entirely fabricated. U know?

Now on top of this, in this discussion is being treated as if the Bible/Quran are the ONLY sources to look at.

Before the rise of christianity, Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, Native Americans, Teutons, Scandinavians, and many other peoples were Pagan and usually believed in multiple Gods that worked together to govern the universe. Often these gods/goddesses were Not All-Knowing or All-Powerful, but were human in nature, which gave people a more personal relationship with their gods. They accepted others beliefs as being just as true as theirs and believed that all religions were just different paths to the same end. It was not until that rise of Arabic Religion ((Christianity, Islam, Judaism), the first of which specifically states "Thou Shall Not Kill") that wars began being fought over religious beliefs. There became a frantic, and often violent, need to forcefully convert peaceful religions to these. During these conversions, many religious and nonreligious texts were burned and propaganda was spread to the point where most people believe that Paganism is devil-worship when they do not believe that there is a devil or a hell. Modern pagans believe that they are both christian inventions to scare ppl into conversion.

^^
Anyway
As a specific example, Iceland was not allowed to have a ship sent to or from Norway until they converted. Good choice right? either you become Christian or your whole people starve...

And that is one of the LEAST offensive accounts...

I mean how can you define God from a religion that constantly changes, not to evolve with the times, but to get more people to join. Let's assume that this is the "correct religion", why would you change aspects of your truth to "commercialize" your beliefs? Does that not make it sound like the "Soulja Boy" of religions... lol

Ever celebrated Easter? ...Pagan
Christmas?.... Adopted from the pagan holiday Yule, said to celebrate the birth of Jesus, but does it in a VERY pagan way.

SO if you have celebrated these let me just quote...

"Do not learn the ways of the nations [heathens] . . ." (Jer.10:2 NIV).

Even Satanism(don't judge) is not what its made out to be. All they "evil" symbols of this "religion" (i use that term lightly for this one :P) is for shock value. What they really believe is that man IS God. It states that an Outer "God" being is just a human invention. So man created God. So to worship an outside god is worshipping man by proxy. so they think Man=God. lol

ANYWAY...

Again these things you base your definition of god on are mixed with so many things, that you cant rely on them...

I say that if you want to define God you must first start with a clean slate. First ignore everything you THINK you know. Look at the world around you. Learn as Much as you can about ALL religion. Incorporate the elements that ring truest in your own soul.

Do not fear a God that would banish to a fiery pit for following your heart. You never know if your right anyway, so just love yourself and those around you, respect the Earth that allows you to live, and be the best person you can.

I try not to be bias, but most of my beliefs are pagan in nature, but I Believe that all gods/goddesses/God are part of the same thing whether it be an outside force, or an aspect of man. Worthy of worship no matter which fashion you do it in.

This has been another serious waste of time :D
~YG~

[Blow]

Modern Relegion is mistranlation of signs of the Zodiac, god does not exsist, there is no spiritual or devine being, it just us, the greatest species to grace the known universe...
Enjoy Your Stupidy Fools: http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

[Bull-Pup]

Modern Relegion is mistranlation of signs of the Zodiac, god does not exsist, there is no spiritual or devine being, it just us, the greatest species to grace the known universe...
Enjoy Your Stupidy Fools: http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

If you want to prove a point,name calling really isn't the way to do it...

And I would like to thank Maldito for his in-depth analysis on the subject...hell,even MANE can't write what he wrote :P

Anyways,if you read the religion of Islam's predictions of the Day of Judgement,you are likely to find that a lot of what is said is true.

Here's one,for example :

Architects compete in building houses of immense height.

Scy Scrapers? I guess so...

Another sign of judgement :

The female aids the male in the marketplace.

There is no "marketplace" anymore,but aren't there working women nowadays?

Yet another example :

Excessive alcohol exumption.

If any dude around the word has enough balls,he would prove that sentence wrong LOL

I could go on posting these,but that is not my point...

My point is,that's said in the Quran,the Holy book of Islam...

How the hell would anybody know that stuff? It was written like 1400 years ago!

Unless there is a God to pass on these predictions to mankind,then noone would possibly know of them before they occur.

I,for one,believe in God for several reasons...the simplest being that if the world could be just pitch black in the end,no pearly gates...then I guess I would rather stay on the safe side...worship God,if I'm not doing any of the things he said not to do already,why not play it safe?

Just a thought...

[Young_Ghost]

I,for one,believe in God for several reasons...the simplest being that if the world could be just pitch black in the end,no pearly gates...then I guess I would rather stay on the safe side...worship God,if I'm not doing any of the things he said not to do already,why not play it safe?

Just a thought...

yes, but what if you are worshipping that God in a completely worng way because errors of man have perpetuated misunderstanding to the point that every (or most) aspect is tainted?

...

what if you are totally wrong all together and the being that you worship is a false God to a truer God (or gods/goddesses who the fuck knows lol) and that God (the one you dont worship) is a jealous God and decides that you should burn in hell or some sort of hell substitute?

...

im not trying to hassle, but faith is not certainty and without some certainty there can really be no safe side at all...

maybe were not as smart as we think and have not even come close to knowing the nature of the divine...

or maybe theres nothing at all... or maybe were all just some greater forces dream... or maybe we only exist because we think we exist and we're our own dream...

...the possibility of being wrong is endless because nothing is ever as it seems...

choosing a religion is like choosing a lottery ticket, just like every other choice, the results can never be determined until the moment they manifest...

there is no safe side

...[!]...

[MANE]

There is but one path; all paths, as One is harmonious with the greater purpose. I am but a thought, existing in seamless thought sequences weaving between each conscious rooting from the essence of being. Stringless existence harbors fleeting expression to sailing Flow[waves]frictionless harmony between existences; the dance of electrons reflects the fractal nature of reality known through paralleled paradigm[truth]as the skyward spiral elevates vantage within paralleled horizons, as greater purpose becomes exponentially relevant, We is the observer.

[Young_Ghost]

There is but one path; all paths, as One is harmonious with the greater purpose. I am but a thought, existing in seamless thought sequences weaving between each conscious rooting from the essence of being. Stringless existence harbors fleeting expression to sailing Flow[waves]frictionless harmony between existences; the dance of electrons reflects the fractal nature of reality known through paralleled paradigm[truth]as the skyward spiral elevates vantage within paralleled horizons, as greater purpose becomes exponentially relevant, We is the observer.

basically what i said...





:D lol

[gREEDy]

Everything thats said in the bible has happened therefore forcoming would be the "rapture".
Literacy declares that all non believers or semi believers will be stuck on earth with the demons who walk among us.

If you are a believer you will be casted off of earth and presented with a new body in the kindgdom of heaven.

IF you are NOT a believer you will be stuck on earth to deal with satan and his army with no means of redemption towards god.

Scary stuff, and the thing about the bible is everything it has said to happen has already happend. They are flying jews in to israel by the thousands.

The bible is def gods lesson and instruction manual to life and the afterlife. And how to enjoy eternity.

[Young_Ghost]

Everything thats said in the bible has happened therefore forcoming would be the "rapture".
Literacy declares that all non believers or semi believers will be stuck on earth with the demons who walk among us.

If you are a believer you will be casted off of earth and presented with a new body in the kindgdom of heaven.

IF you are NOT a believer you will be stuck on earth to deal with satan and his army with no means of redemption towards god.

Scary stuff, and the thing about the bible is everything it has said to happen has already happend. They are flying jews in to israel by the thousands.

The bible is def gods lesson and instruction manual to life and the afterlife. And how to enjoy eternity.

what evidence other than the Bible tells you that all the things in the Bible have happened?

christianity has a belief that they are the only "Right" religion because they have the Bible. but what is there, other than the bible that supports its claims?

well, first you look at who wrote the bible... which began with Moses.... who is a character in what? the Bible. what about references outside of the Bible? None until centuries after his recorded death, and the tales vary widely from those in the Bible and even those are disputed. The first books of the bible are said to have been written by Moses, but include his death, which he could not have written.

1. Innacuracy about author. Bible does not match up with accounts written by various others.

2. Events "recorded" long after they "happened".

Another common Biblical criticism is over the accuracy of translation. In the bible God says that the bible will not be altered in any way. Traditionally, the job of translating and re-writing the Bible was only to be done by officials of the Catholic church. the same Catholic officials that were known to SELL indulgences (statement of forgiveness for a sin), the same Catholic officials that released prisoners and told Christians that all of their sins would be forgiven for killing muslims in the crusades. Why did the church call for crusades? because they were losing power. you dont think they might change something here and there (at least) because it was in their interests?

Does "thou shalt not kill" ring any bells? OR was is "thou shalt only kill muslims and pagans"

-- In 1209, Pope Innocent III launched an armed crusade against Albigenses Christians in southern France. When the besieged city of Beziers fell, soldiers reportedly asked their papal adviser how to distinguish the faithful from the infidel among the captives. He commanded: "Kill them all. God will know his own." Nearly 20,000 were slaughtered -- many first blinded, mutilated, dragged behind horses, or used for target practice.

Throughout history, christians have been known for killing(which the bible says not to do) people because they believed things that went against christian ideas of the world.

Geocentric theory (earth=center of the universe) believed because "God planned it that way"

Heliocentric theory (earth revolves around the sun) believed because it was mathematically proven true.

-- In Spain, where many Jews and Moors had converted to escape persecution, inquisitors sought those harboring their old faith. At least 2,000 Spanish backsliders were burned. Executions in other countries included the burning of scientists such as mathematician-philosopher Giordano Bruno, who espoused Copernicus's theory that the planets orbit the sun.

.
.
.

Now, a shift from criticism to the interesting...

according to the oldest parts of the bible, the name of the christian god is written as YHWH (commonly "Yahweh").

interestingly enough, this was a name that predates christianity to ancient semetic (jewish) polytheism where YHWH was one of many gods. It is a common practice for polytheist tribes to choose a god to worship a little more than others. In some it was YHWH in others it was Ba'al and smaller tribes had other choices. Over time, as one tribe became more powerful than another, so did its god. In the time predating Judaism, the cult of YHWH (semetic worshipers->Jews->Christians, so on) gained power over the others before eventually converting to monotheism.

In the Bible (written by the cult of YHWH) god names Ba'al as a false god....

What better way to estblish your power that trying to say essentially "my god is better than your god!"

finally I would close by saying that I really have nothing against christianity, only that it is as inconsistent as all the others, but its inconsistencies are overlooked. Its "fantastic" events are considered fact yet all the others are just stories.

The christian god is all knowing, all powerful, and all present. Thus he knows everything, and thus knows past, present, and future. Thus knew from the beginning that lucifer would betray him, yet created him anyway, resulting in the test for spirits that is life on earth. A test that he must know the answer to. Known the answer from the time before he created spirits. Thus created many spirits just so they can spend an eternity in 'hell'.

If thats what you want to worship, be my guest, but see it for what it really is.

find your own path by studying religion and criticsms, so at least if you believe something, you have a legit reason for it.

I love intelligent discussions :D

[Gemcee]

All people believe that their religion...is "THE" religion. Possibly the most interesting thing about the human race is that we have no proof of anything, yet, we still believe. 16-20 percent of Americans have no religion--are they going to hell?

We're never going to know and should that fear of not knowing effect ethical behavior?


I think religion allows people to act unethically in some instances, because they believe it is in the name of faith and salvation. Jesus is my buddy..Allah is my main man..so all my crazy actions are justified.

I don't believe in frogs raining down from the sky, that Noah could single-handedly gather one of each animal and keep them calmly occupied on a massive arc or that the earth is 5000 years old---but I'm the crazy one.

hmm..interesting.

[gREEDy]

yea but religions start by taking sections of the bible out they base they're religion upon verses of the bible.

[gREEDy]

Modern Relegion is mistranlation of signs of the Zodiac, god does not exsist, there is no spiritual or devine being, it just us, the greatest species to grace the known universe...
Enjoy Your Stupidy Fools: http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/


In that video, they are relating god and jesus to what MAN made.
God made man, man dies. The evolution theory in that movie is ridiculous

[Young_Ghost]

All people believe that their religion...is "THE" religion. Possibly the most interesting thing about the human race is that we have no proof of anything, yet, we still believe. 16-20 percent of Americans have no religion--are they going to hell?

We're never going to know and should that fear of not knowing effect ethical behavior?


I think religion allows people to act unethically in some instances, because they believe it is in the name of faith and salvation. Jesus is my buddy..Allah is my main man..so all my crazy actions are justified.

I don't believe in frogs raining down from the sky, that Noah could single-handedly gather one of each animal and keep them calmly occupied on a massive arc or that the earth is 5000 years old---but I'm the crazy one.

hmm..interesting.

Your wrong, actually. All Pagan/Neo-pagan religions believe that all religions are a path to "heaven" just done in different ways.

this led to their conversion, because they first added the christian god to their worship to please christians, then eventually just converted under the pressure of christian society.

it is actually possible to be a pagan christian, or w/e (though they would tell you otherwise)

... but yeah, I do agree with you about like the second half. I feel personally close to Jesus/Allah/God/Buddah/Odin/The Goddess or whatever, because of the "goodness" or spiritual fufillment that they represent.

I think that should be the real religion, just with different variations that make it more comfortable to the practicer.

They all teach that there is some form of Divinity, some form of joyous afterlife, that to get there requires being the best person you can.

Only the Abrahamic religions feel that they have to be the ONLY religion, and will kill others over it.

[Gemcee]

Sorry--I'm confused, can you quote exactly what I am wrong about? That's the problem with yall sometimes..ya can't have a debate..yall have to prove that you are right. I am wrong about nothing.

The only fact I posted was the 16-20 percent having no religion..and that's a fact that I could support with a link if needed.

The rest of my statement is my opinion and thoughts...so it's not wrong or right.

[Young_Ghost]

Sorry--I'm confused, can you quote exactly what I am wrong about? That's the problem with yall sometimes..ya can't have a debate..yall have to prove that you are right. I am wrong about nothing.

The only fact I posted was the 16-20 percent having no religion..and that's a fact that I could support with a link if needed.

The rest of my statement is my opinion and thoughts...so it's not wrong or right.

You stated that all religions claim to be the only religion. Thats not an opinion, thats a statement presented as fact.

"Originally Posted by Gemcee View Post
All people believe that their religion...is "THE" religion."

I assumed that by THE you meant the ONLY, because thats what i was talking about in the post you responded to.


just that statement. everything else is cool. :)

[Spine Shank]

Sorry--I'm confused, can you quote exactly what I am wrong about? That's the problem with yall sometimes..ya can't have a debate..yall have to prove that you are right. I am wrong about nothing.

The only fact I posted was the 16-20 percent having no religion..and that's a fact that I could support with a link if needed.

The rest of my statement is my opinion and thoughts...so it's not wrong or right.

Because your wrong. Just totally wrong without a spec of correctness. Wrong wrong wrong.

[MANE]

finally I would close by saying that I really have nothing against christianity, only that it is as inconsistent as all the others, but its inconsistencies are overlooked. Its "fantastic" events are considered fact yet all the others are just stories.

The christian god is all knowing, all powerful, and all present. Thus he knows everything, and thus knows past, present, and future. Thus knew from the beginning that lucifer would betray him, yet created him anyway, resulting in the test for spirits that is life on earth. A test that he must know the answer to. Known the answer from the time before he created spirits. Thus created many spirits just so they can spend an eternity in 'hell'.

It's fantastic events, namely within the gospels, were recorded after the "fact" with a newfound understanding of what Jesus was saying and thus hold solely theological value. Whether you accept the actual events of the death and resurrection of Jesus as true is a matter of faith. Jesus, the idea, functions as the manifestation of our human potential to love, and love is GOD. Faith in Jesus is therefore faith in the potential of humanity to love, or live harmoniously. Jesus was simply aware of how much GOD loves us, and walked Earth as a human to show us. Hence, we as humans are called to be crucified in the sense of living our life for others, or for harmonious cause. The death and resurrection of Jesus is symbolic of how death is overcome through the faith in and realization of GOD's love.
That is the current Catholic theology spoken through I, the lens.
I pose the question, what does religion have to offer that life in itself does not already? Truth is at essence, and seen throughout all levels of existence. All we have to do is look within to begin a journey of realization in self awareness, and ultimately the awareness of the extent of GOD's love, for GOD is within.
Read the gospels, noting statements from Jesus such as "I am the way the truth and the light. No one comes to the Father except through me" with reference only to one's own being.

[Primos]

Personally i don't believe in a God, and im not an athiest, cause my belief don't lie in that i don't believe in God, its that there isnt a point to the universe and that no all mighty being created it. you know the saying everything happens for a reason, this can't be directed at human society, but the universe and the elements in a whole. Rock is rock. Rock's are planets (basically). Massa, your saying that you have to believe in a god, but no. your taking quotes out of a book that someone wrote. and you dont know who accually wrote it, it could have been altered hundreds of times before found. so who are you to say its true, and yes who am i to say its not true. but take a look at how the universe composes itself. Saturn. scientists say it could be another sun in billions of years, and the moons surrounding it will clump together and make more planets. Why? i dont know, no one knows, but this is how the universe works, how certain elements if placed together will cause unbalance and create what you see today. So a god? i don't think so. God is how elements will do what they do. God isnt a being, an almighty spirit. its what you see, colors, plants, planets everything you can feel, see, hear and touch.

[Young_Ghost]

It's fantastic events, namely within the gospels, were recorded after the "fact" with a newfound understanding of what Jesus was saying and thus hold solely theological value. Whether you accept the actual events of the death and resurrection of Jesus as true is a matter of faith. Jesus, the idea, functions as the manifestation of our human potential to love, and love is GOD. Faith in Jesus is therefore faith in the potential of humanity to love, or live harmoniously. Jesus was simply aware of how much GOD loves us, and walked Earth as a human to show us. Hence, we as humans are called to be crucified in the sense of living our life for others, or for harmonious cause. The death and resurrection of Jesus is symbolic of how death is overcome through the faith in and realization of GOD's love.
That is the current Catholic theology spoken through I, the lens.
I pose the question, what does religion have to offer that life in itself does not already? Truth is at essence, and seen throughout all levels of existence. All we have to do is look within to begin a journey of realization in self awareness, and ultimately the awareness of the extent of GOD's love, for GOD is within.
Read the gospels, noting statements from Jesus such as "I am the way the truth and the light. No one comes to the Father except through me" with reference only to one's own being.

All that you stated is a metaphorical interpretation of the Bible... which means that you do not take each thing within for fact. Is it based on fact? well, that depends on the intention of the writers, which is indeterminable at this point in time, but I believe that in its purest origins, it is. Many other religions believe in the stories of their faith as metaphors for how one should model themselves in the way that will best lead them to discover their "human potential to love" as you said. aka finding God. I am in agreeance that the state of Divinity is a state of undying harmony and love. "love is God". When observed in this fashion, the same can be said about any "real" religion. All "real" religions teach three basic principles which are summed up in the following: 1. The existence of Divinity 2. Some form of life beyond the expiration of the physical self. 3. That one must hold values that uphold the "human potential to love". And all value above all kindness, honesty, strength, and courage, among other aspects that are seen to be God-like. At the root of all "real" religions is the same foundation. when I say real, I mean not Satanism (belief that you are your own God) or Pastafarianism (Spaghetti-monster anti-religion bullshit) and things like that. Anyway, I comment not on the foundations of the Christian religion because I believe that when used as spiritual guidance, they are pure and true. Instead I comment on the arrogance of people who have accepted all beliefs as unyielding FACT and have used that to cause disharmony. I mean, seriously, the Bible is claimed to be fact because it was written under divine inspiration. Meaning the writers claimed that they were divinely inspired, yet in most christian groups the Book of Mormon is ridiculed even though Joseph Smith claims that he was divinely inspired. Hell, I could claim to be Divinely inspired to write this and by that logic, you would automatically have to believe that its true. Im merely stanging my frustration with common christian view that, at least to me, seem contradictory if viewed as fact. The premise, taken symbolically, plays an important part in my general religious views, but so do alot of things. The Eddas (religious "myths" of scandinavian ) are also important to me because of their lessons on courage and what can happen when you take things too far. This ties into buddhist aspects of what causes suffering and how to free oneself from that suffering, and many other aspects that I believe complete what religion should be.

your points are great, probably the same as mine in essence, but from a more christian perspective. do you study other religions?

its all interesting stuff.

[EmceeReus]

Interesting.