View Full Version : Fools
Religion does not exist, most of the main religions are copies of each other incorporating, edited content and mistranslation. All of them stem from Egyptian mythology and Astrology...
If you believe there is an invisible man in the sky that can see everything all of the earths population of 6.684 billion people are doing and judges them on it, you are a fucking idiot... Some one please justify to me why I or anyone else should believe that?
You should just all harden the fuck up and accept the fact that when you die there are no pearly gates, just a big hole in the ground that people pay thousands of there hard earned dollars to put you in...
Life should be enjoyed, stop worrying, live for now and the future, dont live for death... Bill Hicks says:
Life is like a ride in an amusement park
and when you go on it you think its real,
because that's how powerful our minds are.
When the ride goes up and down and around and around
and it has thrill and chills and its very brightly coloured.
And its very loud and its fun for awhile.
Some have been on the ride for a long time and
they begin to question is this real or is this just a ride?
And other people have remembered and they come back to us
and say "Hey don't worry, don't be afraid ever, because this is just a ride"
And we kill those people
"Shut him up! I've got a lot invested in this ride"
Shut him up.
Look at my furrows of worry,
look at my big bank account
and my family
this has to be real.
It's just a ride
but we kill those good guys who try and tell us that,
do you ever notice that?
and let the demons run a mock.
But it doesn't matter, because its just a ride
and we can change it anytime we want.
Its only a choice,
no effort,
no work,
no job,
no savings of money.
Just a choice right now
between
fear
and
love.
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
www.wwwdotcom.com
Anesthetic
08-18-2008, 06:19 AM
May I ask, why you're bent on proving that religion is a fallacy?
and may i ask how does mars or jupiter looks like??? since you seem to have all the answers.
Even great know-it-alls like Darwin has been proved wrong and you last on that line my dude!!
question again, if ADMIn didn't seize the initiative would there be Rapdogs??? why do we have Authors to Books and Musicians to songs??? because there was clever masterminding and proper execution through creativty, science,technology and arts...there's nothing that has no beginning ...
Why Am I bent proving religion false? Because in 7 years my liver is going to be rotting out my ass hole... And I'm going to have to die... Because religion forbids playing god, the Christian society we live in bounds the beauty and ugliness of humankind! That is my personal reason for hating religion, cause they can cure my liver and colon, cause they can replace my dads lung, but they wont because, that’s PLAYING GOD!
“Don’t know what god is, but I know what he isn’t” – Gerald Massy, Doctor In Egyptiantolgy…
“Every institute today is visibly lying to you, what makes you believe the religious institute is any different!” – Peter Joseph, Doctor In Conspiracies & Theologies.
I’m at school now will talk later…
Anesthetic
08-20-2008, 07:19 AM
Why Am I bent proving religion false? Because in 7 years my liver is going to be rotting out my ass hole... And I'm going to have to die... Because religion forbids playing god, the Christian society we live in bounds the beauty and ugliness of humankind! That is my personal reason for hating religion, cause they can cure my liver and colon, cause they can replace my dads lung, but they wont because, that’s PLAYING GOD!
A little more specificity would be beneficial..
I'm not going to get specific because it’s a tad irrelevant to my point, my point is religion is an idiotic plague on society that is used to create an illusion on sensible morals to which a group of power can control the wills of beings. Its happened for years, it happened in the medieval ages, it’s the same now, its just inconspicuous. The church is controlling and exploiting the masses, I don’t want any religion, I represent the religion of Humankind, Humankind is until proven, superior! One of the reason religion is good as it sets morals for us, and gives us hope, but to bound humankinds mind as it does, that is no more a religion than a prison.
about your liver and your pop's lungs i'm sorry but you'll have to blame Tobacco and Alcohol,now don't get it twisted i'm no more the less holier than you morally or otherwise.
is it because of projections that you might cease to exist in the next 7years that make you want to relinquish the old flame of faith, labelling it as religion and the likes.
My dude death is inevitable and noone knows the hour.so don't turn jelly or act like babies, we have 18year old Americans serving in Iraq and some within the age gap that have lost their lives as we speak(may thier souls rest in peace).It's high time you became a man, if we were to argue for debate sakes i would just skip the practical embellishments with which i've garnish My argument cake so far.
Jesus died he rose i have personal experiences to prove he's real but i can't force you to believe in what i do, for example.so skip it.
Now about religion leaders are human and are also corruptible don't forget that.as a matter of fact Sept 11 was motivated by religion differences, so was the Holocaust.
In conclusion religion is a knotty issue in which you can't really loose easily or force anyone to go in the direction you believe is right.
But you cannot deny, there should be knowing...
But you also won't affirm a need for disknowing.....
Gemcee
08-22-2008, 08:34 AM
I don’t want any religion, I represent the religion of Humankind, .
what a load of shit.
Lol^ Your contributing like Maltildo...
Ekwe, I do confirm the need to know, why not know, why be bounded to one option when there is so much contradiction, my mind is undecided till further ague.
Life should be enjoyed, stop worrying, live for now and the future, dont live for death...
Well, no disrespect, but practice what you preach and drop the subject then. I agree with you that there's no God, but that's beyond the point. You can try all you want, but if someone has Faith then there's no way you can possibly break it....and I highly doubt posting shit on a rap site is the most effective way to prove your theories. No one will ever prove or disprove God and that's the best part of it: the one thing in life that no one will ever figure out, regardless of technology and research.
Meh... It’s all just an endless pit opinionated bullshit, shut up and let us have or fun... Who knows, some minds maybe enlightened along the way and the closer we can get to the truth and the more digging we do, the better. Religion and Conspiracy are some of my favorite subjects, I study theology at school and enjoy it to death and I’m always up for one of these never ending arguments. If you have nothing to contribute, then better off staying out of it. I think the biggest problem with people these days is they have done no research! You need sources, EVIDENCE , EVIDENCE AND EVIDENCE!!!
what a load of shit.
you talk my friend like a youngman in an harlot house you won't have the light-skinned and still disapproved of the dark.
If you were to maintain your stance on God it will be exciting to see how that speaks of your history itself being a scholar or even a theologian yourself which brings me to the conclusion that you already had your mind set right from the On-set on the foregoing issue(s) only bringing up it's ghost continually to haunt a needless debate since you possess both sides of the argument i.e for and against as it were. so from now on i shall hold my peace!
Spine Shank
08-23-2008, 11:03 AM
Who cares. Christianity was started by Jesus influencing people...now you are here, trying to INFLUENCE people that all of it is not true? So by doing that, your really just contradicting yourself and trying to make a new religion...one way to look at it...
I watched most of Zeitgeist last night and found it stimulating. They present facts for points in a fairly articulate manner, but their conclusions on religion have little scope. There is a greater essence of religion that they fail to allude to, and it is unsettling that a group with such a degree of influence on thought overlooked that nature of religion to conclude that religion merely a tool of the power at hand, when in actuality religion harbors spirituality through community and purpose. Believe it or not, but there is more to Jesus than Jesus himself.
GhostRider
08-23-2008, 01:28 PM
I watched most of Zeitgeist last night and found it stimulating. They present facts for points in a fairly articulate manner, but their conclusions on religion have little scope. There is a greater essence of religion that they fail to allude to, and it is unsettling that a group with such a degree of influence on thought overlooked that nature of religion to conclude that religion merely a tool of the power at hand, when in actuality religion harbors spirituality through community and purpose. Believe it or not, but there is more to Jesus than Jesus himself.
I seen some of the Zeitgeist, not all of them though. But they're pretty damn interesting and will keep you thinking a lot.
Also, people believe in an afterlife, a god, ect. for thousands upon thousands of years. Mankind sort of thrives on it. If you (Blow) don't believe it, it's all good. Honestly, I'm sure a lot of people can careless if you oppose religion. But you're not going to change anyone's thought about religion here. So if you don't believe in religion you must believe in evolution. Am I correct? I just want to know, what exactly do you believe about how we all got here.
What's the difference between religion and evolution? Religion is a product of evolution, and as humanity evolves, not just physically but consciously, one may observe the presence of that which religion surrounds throughout reality and recognize it as truth realized through paralleled paradigm, or vantage itself. Religion is but a facet of an essence from which all things arise, harboring spiritual connection from a direct and sometimes literal standpoint.
GhostRider
08-23-2008, 02:25 PM
^ I see what you mean but put it this way. IF you believe in a god of anysort for example Christianity. The story of Adam & Eve, ect. And Muslim and all the other religions have a story or reading of man being created. Therefore, creation, is that truly evolution? Possibly depending on which way you want to look at it. But if you look, like Blow said Horus & Jesus are similar. In fact the Christians belief and Egyptians have many similarities. (It mentions that in the Zeitgeist). And many holy books of various religions have a flooding in the beginning, and other other similar stories. Is it all made up? Once again, depending on how you look at it. But could it be true? Possibly.
Mane, I'm happy you watched ZietGiest, but its not very well sourced either, for example:
Joesph Didn't Really Have 12 Brothers that acted like deciples.
There were 19 kings not 12.
If there were 19 kings I'm guessing more than 12 princes...
Ok, well there's allot more but the 12 thing is bullshit.
The cross is a pagan symbol, and the bible proves that so no argument there...
The conclusion has no concrete point.
In the Hebrew bible it does not say age it actually say "Time".
Really the only thing thats good about ZietGiest is the proving of relgions mimcing each other and the solar equinox. Other than that its points are few and false, Gerald Massey in the other hand, holy shit, if you can get your head around his funny use of old english his books are amazing!
I will post warez links to his books if the VCC will allow it, unless you want to do an overseas loan from British Libraries, the books have been discontinued.
What's the difference between religion and evolution? Religion is a product of evolution, and as humanity evolves, not just physically but consciously, one may observe the presence of that which religion surrounds throughout reality and recognize it as truth realized through paralleled paradigm, or vantage itself. Religion is but a facet of an essence from which all things arise, harboring spiritual connection from a direct and sometimes literal standpoint.
is this guy good or what???
Young_Ghost
08-29-2008, 05:38 PM
I find that in standing in opposition, the two sides of this argument become one. One in the sense that you agree that there is opposition to be stood in. And in that state of agreement you collaborate to assist each in blinding the other with assumptions based on no evidence other than the belief that your own consciousness is a credible source. To prove that your own awareness can be trusted, you must look at the source of that awareness. Scientifically you are the product of chaos. A random series of events that can be traced back to the birth of history. In essence... nothing. Nothing but a chronologically produced speck of dust that struggles in futility until the point at which its awareness is extinguished. But before then? Before the Earth's conception. There was... A big bang?... before then? or did it randomly spring into existence as you did, making you and the universe one in the same? Its impossible for you perceive these arcane transgressions of the universe, which in turn makes yourself impossible for you to perceive. So, not believing in religion, how do you count yourself as a credible source when, even scientifically, you do not have the means to perceive yourself?
ehh i dont even feel like finishing this... i think you got the idea
if you didnt its that the whole conversation is basically pointless and the more you think about it the less you know
and you should think that religion makes a little more sense now, though i stand for neither cause.
^^^^ Verifiable Proof,pls???
Scientifically you are the product of chaos. A random series of events that can be traced back to the birth of history.
Scientifically, chaos is ultimately a system of order. All movements of points in ambient space reflect greater function despite initial perceptions.
Science is a functional facet of perception, through which it becomes a product of observance, and a form of awareness. As the scale differs, one may realize that awareness is a function of consciousness, as consciousness functions with time.
See time as one instead of emphasizing chronological division in moments of consciousness. From this point, as time has a function relative to consciousness, what is philosophy? As the universe is a perpetual system of nothing, nothing is relative to something; therefore, nothing is something. Nothing is a point in ambient space arising from inevitability. What is inevitability? Inevitability is the absolute from which all things arise. As far as denying the credibility of your own conscious goes, truth may be found through paralleled realization as consciousness spirals skyward with awareness, and faith becomes a matter of sanity as thoughts manifest, channeling life at the asymptote of two paths with a right choice to make.
[pass the mic to David D.]
Its impossible for you perceive these arcane transgressions of the universe, which in turn makes yourself impossible for you to perceive. So, not believing in religion, how do you count yourself as a credible source when, even scientifically, you do not have the means to perceive yourself?
-For an individual to say this it is hard to believe that the religion followed is practiced with a strong heart. For when some perceive themselves, they do not credit themselves enough to believe in them being. Thus, the cry for help to a greater being. Ask your self, for when i pray do I ask for help or do i converse with. Thus religion will be forever exisisting, but will the followers keep walking. For some one to not have the means to perceive themselves means that they don't know the self or they are clouded by outside mirrors. Reflections that already have roots can not be changed just minipulated. For the perceiving is possible because everything in the universe started at the begining which includes you and me. If you say impossiblity is relative to my thought than it is possible that the credibility is only a source of opinion.
"I, The One and Only"
ZReaper
08-31-2008, 12:23 PM
red the baron is gay as hell
Scientifically, chaos is ultimately a system of order. All movements of points in ambient space reflect greater function despite initial perceptions.
Science is a functional facet of perception, through which it becomes a product of observance, and a form of awareness. As the scale differs, one may realize that awareness is a function of consciousness, as consciousness functions with time.
See time as one instead of emphasizing chronological division in moments of consciousness. From this point, as time has a function relative to consciousness, what is philosophy? As the universe is a perpetual system of nothing, nothing is relative to something; therefore, nothing is something. Nothing is a point in ambient space arising from inevitability. What is inevitability? Inevitability is the absolute from which all things arise. As far as denying the credibility of your own conscious goes, truth may be found through paralleled realization as consciousness spirals skyward with awareness, and faith becomes a matter of sanity as thoughts manifest, channeling life at the asymptote of two paths with a right choice to make.
[pass the mic to David D.]
-For an individual to say this it is hard to believe that the religion followed is practiced with a strong heart. For when some perceive themselves, they do not credit themselves enough to believe in them being. Thus, the cry for help to a greater being. Ask your self, for when i pray do I ask for help or do i converse with. Thus religion will be forever exisisting, but will the followers keep walking. For some one to not have the means to perceive themselves means that they don't know the self or they are clouded by outside mirrors. Reflections that already have roots can not be changed just minipulated. For the perceiving is possible because everything in the universe started at the begining which includes you and me. If you say impossiblity is relative to my thought than it is possible that the credibility is only a source of opinion.
"I, The One and Only"
Seconded^
But!!!
We have moved away from the point, thus is collecting evidence to wiegh the scale of faith verses reality. My thoughts are testimony to people having false hope, they need to have hope in them selves.
^^ who invented the entity called "self"(inferred from your context)???
Self = A title Giving To Ones Being. Mane likes to get into quantum physics, I'll stay out of it for the moment. But simply by looking a the ideas of physics we defy "god" and the thought of devine intervention and creation.
Self = A title Giving To Ones Being.
Goood! Now Who engineered that being ??
Millions of cells that formed out of an embro, I think some one needs to have a little talk with you Ekwe, about the facts of life.
Goood! Now Who engineered that being ??
Rules of something arise from rules of nothing as the fractal structure[nature] of reality is perceived. Mane is channeling life, posed at the asymptote of existence; left or right, the greater path is always on sight; now watch me take flight
I'm a product of my own conscious ego oscillating night to day
I speak, igniting rays to emanate the flame Mane lights the way
with no thoughts left to be heard within, the Mime's silence fades
Violins play harmoniously with the tides that rise above my waist
dilated visions cascade the retina with excess entropy that enters me, and
eventually you through I is We identity
Converging frequencies of energy emanates conscious moments of the entity; the being.
Becoming aware is simply seeing.
Millions of cells that formed out of an embro, I think some one needs to have a little talk with you Ekwe, about the facts of life.
What Facts???
Millions of cells that formed out of an embro, I think some one needs to have a little talk with you Ekwe, about the facts of life.
What Facts??? The One You learned or the one you observed???
Young_Ghost
09-08-2008, 07:15 PM
i think this topic is plagued with scattered ideas only tangently related to each other.
If a man dreams himself a butterfly, and in this dream his "self" IS the butterfly, when he wakes how does he know he is not just a butterfly dreaming of being a man?
I hope everyone enjoys that i took a Simulist stance in this discussion just for the pure fact that no amount of evidence can ever refute it. lol
if nothing is something then it is a fact that nothing=something so the inverse must also be true that something=nothing. and if two contradictory statements be simultaneously true then black can equal white and there is and is not a God(or Gods damn it! lol) at the same time. which means that the truth is irrelevant and thus i will take this moment to exit the conversation.
i think this topic is plagued with scattered ideas only tangently related to each other.
isn't that inspiration?
If a man dreams himself a butterfly, and in this dream his "self" IS the butterfly, when he wakes how does he know he is not just a butterfly dreaming of being a man?
Isn't that Chuang Tzu?
I hope everyone enjoys that i took a Simulist stance in this discussion just for the pure fact that no amount of evidence can ever refute it. lol
Consider it an exercise of internal realization.
if nothing is something then it is a fact that nothing=something so the inverse must also be true that something=nothing. and if two contradictory statements be simultaneously true then black can equal white and there is and is not a God(or Gods damn it! lol) at the same time. which means that the truth is irrelevant and thus i will take this moment to exit the conversation.
Truth[mystery] is a core function of being, for we call upon reality[mystery] for stability[faith in void diving, in an open flow of will through oneness] in oscillation between polarities in sine wave function. The convergence of frequency emanates consciousness reflecting the patterns of fractal in paralleled paradigm and ultimately the cycle, or the perpetual nature of void and space creating the perception of change in a feed and reception of information, experienced through knowing and uncertainty[essentially, polarity] leading the sensation of walking upon one's own path as relativity registers reality in moments of thought. And so, We walk upon the interconnected path of life, from seeds to roots that reach for the skies of our eyes completing the cycle of life.
Man, I want to read this, but I'm so lazy... Damn it!
Self = A title Giving To Ones Being. Mane likes to get into quantum physics, I'll stay out of it for the moment. But simply by looking a the ideas of physics we defy "god" and the thought of devine intervention and creation.
The ideas of physics inevitably correlate with GOD; now, I ask who GOD is, gazing[not glimpsing] beyond reality. Meditate on faith driven stringlessness and stringless faith as the inevitable is realized, as the universe looks itself in a mirror. Mystery is the void as mystery describes void. Wonder is the seed of direction, and mystery the soil. I am the conception of the flow, reflection and echo of life as water as life is water, and I wonder, at peace with a path of predicament like the parkour of water upon pebbles in a dance with plants and ultimately trees from which I breathe; this is but a reflection of you and I, as I is We.
The point is simple, the continuation of this endless pit of oppinoinated bullshit is pointless...
It has taken a terrible mental toll on us all...
Young Ghost thinks he is a butterfly...
Mane is pretneding to be a fucking candle!
We got Ekwe and Nem making little to no sense at all...
I'm overwhelmed by Sir. Candles vocab!!!
And with the exception of a fwe odd posts everything is poorly researched and un-sourced!
My document will soon be finished, and then Sir. Candle will melt a burst into flams lighting the wings of Ghosts drem butterfly, lighting Sir candles dancing plants of fire and burning this motherfucker down!
Is there a officer problem, I'm sorry I have to go to aa now...
Young_Ghost
09-10-2008, 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Young_Ghost View Post
i think this topic is plagued with scattered ideas only tangently related to each other.
isn't that inspiration? No, inspiration is a trigger causing a heightened state of awareness in ones cognitive processes or emotions
If a man dreams himself a butterfly, and in this dream his "self" IS the butterfly, when he wakes how does he know he is not just a butterfly dreaming of being a man?
Isn't that Chuang Tzu? Actually, it was Zhuangzi
I hope everyone enjoys that i took a Simulist stance in this discussion just for the pure fact that no amount of evidence can ever refute it. lol
Consider it an exercise of internal realization. I consider it an exercise in utilizing an abstract view in order to evoke certain pensive expression from my conversational counterparts.
if nothing is something then it is a fact that nothing=something so the inverse must also be true that something=nothing. and if two contradictory statements be simultaneously true then black can equal white and there is and is not a God(or Gods damn it! lol) at the same time. which means that the truth is irrelevant and thus i will take this moment to exit the conversation.
Truth[mystery] is a core function of being, for we call upon reality[mystery] for stability[faith in void diving, in an open flow of will through oneness] in oscillation between polarities in sine wave function. The convergence of frequency emanates consciousness reflecting the patterns of fractal in paralleled paradigm and ultimately the cycle, or the perpetual nature of void and space creating the perception of change in a feed and reception of information, experienced through knowing and uncertainty[essentially, polarity] leading the sensation of walking upon one's own path as relativity registers reality in moments of thought. And so, We walk upon the interconnected path of life, from seeds to roots that reach for the skies of our eyes completing the cycle of life.
Maybe I lost the point while I was ensconced in your diatribe of vocabulary, but I fail to recognize the relevance to my statement (assuming there was any to be found.) I am not saying that there is anything in my statement that even warrants a refute, or that you cant do it, or that i care, just that I cant tell. lol
And Blow...
I implore you to formulate a document that can "burn down" my beliefs, especially considering the fact that if you scrutinize my contributions to the thread you will see that i have not presented any. I have merely presented questions into the methods of your argument. To make any attempt to attack the foundations of my beliefs is to attempt to remove a base of water from under a tower of air. Try to remove the water and succeed only in waving your thoughts through it, try to force them in and find yourself drowning in my reasoning.
Then you'll have the privilege of seeing your logic systematically destroyed by a butterfly who does care how the argument ends anyway. :)
See, another thing is, there is no reason to metaphor the fuck outta everything. Fuck your ass fucked metaphors why you doing this to me,.. I cant read ARGH@! My face!
Lol... Just say what you mean, you will never allow all to see the bases of your idea if you dont allow everyone to comprehend them, or maybe you only want a certain amount of people at a intellectual level to get you, right?
Or maybe you feel if you get all smart on me I wont understand you and will stop arguing your stupid Christianity!
J-Rey
09-10-2008, 04:23 PM
I haven't read through the infinite points already aroused by this thread, but here's my view. I feel since there is so many different religious beliefs, and beliefs in general, that when we die, it's just going to be a huge multiple choice question. And I'm going to do what I do on all questions that I don't know. I'll guess. There's no use in studying (holy scripture readings) or seeing a tutor (church). In the end, I think it's all up to the person. And that's really what it should be.
Gemcee
09-10-2008, 04:30 PM
^^ Amen!
Seriously..we'll only know the great mysteries of the world when we die....and even then ..we may just die and then Blow will be there telling me "I told you so"..and that would be the worst eternal death ever.
J-Rey
09-10-2008, 05:14 PM
I don't that would be the worst. Eternal death with no hip-hop. I think that tops an "I told you so" any day
It will be like a really annoying car trip... But for entirety!
But seriously, when we die, there is going to be nothing, the simple fact of something, a series of matter as our conscious degrade and our energy is channeled to infinite. Thats why it is up to us to try and know as much as we can now!
Young_Ghost
09-10-2008, 07:11 PM
LOL Blow
ok let me break it down like this...
1. I love the phrase "Metaphor the fuck out" that was awesome.
2. I only used it cuz i liked the one MANE used about sand or some shit, but i generally dont like the way he expresses himself either because it is not presented in a way that most people can understand, which comes off as arrogant. (and i know that if i have a hard time understanding him, most people wont even bother reading it lol)
3. I am NOT Christian... matter of fact im far from it. My WHOLE point in this whole thing was to try to get people to realize that the points of view are not just middle eastern religion (aka Christianity, Judaism, Islam) Atheism, or "i dont know" ESPECIALLY for those who say they dont know... and those like yourself who must lash out at Christianity because it has offended you in some way. Your need to disprove and/or debase others beliefs is the EXACT same thing as the Christian who tries to shove their religion down your throat (or the past ones who killed to spread it) because they think its right (which is mostly because its the most popular, NOT because they thought through and considered other options). And I am not saying that they are all like that, not at all. Its just the ones who do that that turn people off to it. But every group has fanatics. and you should not fight their fanaticism with your own (equally annoying) fanaticism.
4. I have a question, so maybe we can have a real discussion. Do you actually believe that nothing happens to us? or that nothing happens in the Christian sense of the afterlife? Is it possible that our energy (which you know everything is made up of, and cannot be destroyed) remains together, and thus our consciousness could possibly remain intact? but lets say instead of being judged by some god, we now have unltd. freedom to roam the universe? or in reference to String Theory, other dimensions infinitely?
I just want to know what it is that you actually do think. one non-Christian to another. lol
footnote: im not in anyway saying that any religion is wrong or that i dont believe in a god/gods/goddesses i just think that the little beliefs that i do have are irrelevant from my stance.
Its like this,
My argument with Christianity and Religion in general is from the bases of not knowing. I dont know what happens, I'm not 100% sure about anything in this life. But not be constricted, and to not crave to want to know, to allow the bases of wishing to discover to be bound to one thing is ludicrous, keep your beliefs, but allow us and your self you keep asking why. When my air tower falls its friction with cause lighting on the sands that surrounds the lake of its water, the sands will turn to glass the surrounding image will be tainted for all to see, rather then clear for only some.
Gemcee
09-11-2008, 07:11 AM
2. I only used it cuz i liked the one MANE used about sand or some shit, but i generally dont like the way he expresses himself either because it is not presented in a way that most people can understand, which comes off as arrogant. (and i know that if i have a hard time understanding him, most people wont even bother reading it lol)
I just want to point out that anyones extreme knowledge on a subject may be mistaken for arrogance. Mane has never been one to post redundant or useless information and if I may be so bold...Blow seems to mistake his own opinion as actual fact sometimes. :) which we all do sometimes.
It's simply a fight that no one can be right about--or win.
Blow seems to mistake his own opinion as actual fact sometimes. :) which we all do sometimes.
Well I wouldn't go as far to say that, as in to point the figure at me. Everyone who posts in this forum with an opinion supporting there belief thinks the are right, right?
As in Ekwe and Nem, both believe the answers they are giving are as close to the fact as possible, right? As does Mane?
And throughout all of my statements I acknowledge as much as the next man that I can only push mine as close to the truth as possible.
But I always cant help but feel that without evidence or sources your point is in valid, which is what a Cert. II in Modern History and Cert. III is SOSE and Theology does to ones reasoning abilities.
Gemcee
09-11-2008, 05:30 PM
Everyone who posts in this forum with an opinion supporting there belief thinks the are right, right?
No..that is wrong.I know my opinion is just that..an opinion. It is not "right" by any means.
My certification as a school teacher has my reasoning abilities at their peak...plus the fact that i have like 12 more years than you under my belt.
^But thats still what you believe, right?
Lol, shit it would be good to have a rapper school teacher...
Gemcee
09-12-2008, 06:35 AM
Yes...it's what I believe in. It does not make me right. Comeon...you gotta be able to wrap your mind around that ..you are a smart dude.
surprise
09-15-2008, 09:12 PM
I think the main reason most people jump directly from a dislike of religion into pure atheism is because they mistake the wayward dogma for the religion itself.
Almost every damn thing the apostate mainstream churches teach are dead wrong. Not to mention those teachings have changed drastically over the centuries. Not to mention in the christian religion, the founding of the church as we know it and the bible as we know it was made by a Roman political council. Not to mention the pure evil that the church committed from the Dark ages to the Renaissance, largely in the name of the Holy Roman Empire. Not to mention the genuine suppression of science until the said Renaissance. Not to mention all the European theocratic monarchies that ruled for so many years (Victorian era as an example).
There is no way around the fact - what your priest who went to priest school and got taught priest talking points - what he tells you is just incorrect.
Religion, being at the center of humankind's thought and activity, has actually been a millenia old battlefield. A battlefield to get taxpayers paying, a battlefield to quell political dissent, a battlefield to control your opinions, a battlefield to control the world, a battlefield to raise armies, and a battlefield to control your thoughts.
So its easy to see how quickly an institutionalized religion will be corrupted. In fact the act of institutionalizing automatically is a corrupt act and invalidates that version of that religion. In the Jesus version of religion, there is evidence in the scriptures that corruption was already occurring before Jesus even died, and he also predicted such a turnout.
So let the corruption run for centuries into the information age. Now we see a bible thumping minion trying to convert you, and getting irritated when you deny him the opportunity. Fuck these slimeballs you say, and you turn to atheism. They can truly be offensive, making the act of embracing atheism an act of defiance and defense. Its the logical thing to do, really.
Yet, are these religious guys truly representatives of their proposed religion? Not really. They'll be quick to tell you that with one prayer you can live forever. RIIIIIIGHHHTT. So then you say, ok state your source, theyll say John 3:16, and you can laugh in their face. Why? John 3:16 is truly powerful and mentions everlasting life, but where does it say pray one time for a free ticket? It just doesn't. They have interpreted it, then time passed, and they have reinterpreted it, over again until the time comes where their rhetoric best impacts the everyday person, and they manage to convert them to their lifestyle. Truth be damned.
If you blindly follow these people then you are either gullible or been so deeply trained by family or social network that you just can't snap out of it, or you need the network for various psychological reasons such as very old people coping with death and the lack of friends.
Making this problem worse is the idea that God's hand has guided the church this whole time and that the church will ALWAYS be in the territory of RIGHTNESS, no matter what. And that God's hand has guided the religion the whole time so as to never let it fall into corruption. Therefore you can blindly trust your preacher, even if he molests your kids.
It is truly absurd to think that Gods hand guided the various schismed churches and the formation of the canon bible. If His ways were to just guide form above, why send his son in human form in John 3:16? It would reduce the act of Jesus on Earth to simply a theatrical show for the fans.
So returning to Zeitgeist. These guys realized that the dogma was absurd and did some valuable research. They then misrepresented their research to agree with their preselected view: that atheism is solution. What they did was blind themselves just like their hated enemies, the Christians, blind themselves. After they force fit their research into a preselected solution, they also concluded it must have all come from Egypt.
The fact is that yes much of the bible obviously did come from Egyptian beliefs. Shit, the Jewish people were displaced in Egypt for generations. It also came from much older religions. Egypt didn't start it all.
But the corrupt church would prefer to deny the origins of its religion for better "product control," so to speak. In the Dark Ages, when the church was actively suppressing knowledge and science, they must have realized that the astronomical, mathematical, and other universal knowledge that was ingrained in their text would be harmful to the institution. If the people knew all along that the bible is sourced from all sorts of ancient knowledge, then the Apostolic Palace would lose its grip on the claim of the "One True Religion."
Why do you really think certain numbers keep popping up in the bible that relate to what people used to call "sacred geometry" even when Jesus was performing miracles. Why are most every animal mentioned in the bible, just so happens to also be an animal in the zodiac? other mysteries such as these devastate the mainstream view of christianity. In response, the christians call these findings sorcery and heresy. They then ridicule it further by calling it astrology, when in fact its just research.
So with the falseness of the dogma perfectly exposed, and just the research and facts to sift through you have one of two ways to go. One way is to go atheist and have a negative sort of emotion toward the concept of spirituality and meaning, or the other way can open the door to the rich nature of man's history, the mysteries of the real knowledge hidden and buried within the bible, and since christianity in its real form is a religion based on the sun and stars and eternal life, it can open the door to a spirituality that is amazed at the universe, instead of hell fearing.
I prefer to marvel at the strange understandings i find in the text - such as the connection of vesica piscus to the fish miracle (the miracles are not metaphor, OR literal, its math and stars teachings.) Ancient knowledge stuff. This is what is supposed to be meant when they say religion is a path or a journey of discovery - literal self educating and discovering of mysteries. I feel more positive than just being an atheist, who are basing their religion on a pure gut feeling belief anyway.
I also believe in the intervention theory to explain mankind's origins. If you read closely in Genesis, this is what it is really saying. Creationism is absurd in the way the mainstream religion presents it.
Young_Ghost
09-17-2008, 02:24 PM
*sheds tear*
exactly the kinds of things i mean to say when im talking about whatever bullshit im talking about. lol your conciseness is enviable.
* and when i said MANE can come off as arrogant, i didnt me TO ME. I meant that it may seem that way to someone who doesnt understand the terminology. From their POV they may feel left out. I understand that MANE is a smart mah-fuckka lol
Divine Write
10-19-2008, 09:32 AM
I didn't read the whole thing because you guys talk a lot.
It goes like this.
The bible was written by simpler folk at a simpler time. The education level was low and a lot of things that we now know sources of were deemed to be supernatural than. A lot of things were unknown. Lightning was thought to be fire from the the Gods and they believed it was caused by them angering them. These same people who wrote the bible thought the Earth was flat and that we were the center of the Universe. It's easy to see why in such uncertain times so many wild stories would be passed around as doctrine. By why still now? This aspect boggles my mind.
Answer me this. God created all. We know there are millions of galaxies in this Universe that consist of billions of planets. How come the bible only talks of us. If God spoke to his followers who in turn interpreted it into the bible, why did he not speak of other worlds. You have to know other intelligent life exists out their somewhere. To think we are the only ones in this vast unknown is a truely selfish point of view.
But let's say there is no other life forms. Why would God create all that extra space?
Also, science also knows that our sun is just an average star, matured. They know stars, like all other forms of energy will eventually burn out. Some just fizzle away while others go out in bangs. It's said that ours will fizzle. It's to small to implode creating a blackhole. Either way, without it this planet and all others in this galaxy will die. What will happen to God when we all die? All other planets in this universe will continue but we will not. Will God live on or will the idea of one die with us?
Young_Ghost
10-19-2008, 11:56 AM
I didn't read the whole thing because you guys talk a lot.
It goes like this.
The bible was written by simpler folk at a simpler time. The education level was low and a lot of things that we now know sources of were deemed to be supernatural than. A lot of things were unknown. Lightning was thought to be fire from the the Gods and they believed it was caused by them angering them. These same people who wrote the bible thought the Earth was flat and that we were the center of the Universe. It's easy to see why in such uncertain times so many wild stories would be passed around as doctrine. By why still now? This aspect boggles my mind.
I agree.
Answer me this. God created all. We know there are millions of galaxies in this Universe that consist of billions of planets. How come the bible only talks of us. If God spoke to his followers who in turn interpreted it into the bible, why did he not speak of other worlds. You have to know other intelligent life exists out their somewhere. To think we are the only ones in this vast unknown is a truely selfish point of view.
Why would a god have to tell his followers everything hes doing? A manager doesn't tell each employee about what he wants the others to do. He tells each employee what they need to know to get the job done.
But let's say there is no other life forms. Why would God create all that extra space?
Thats a hypothetical question, no point in giving a hypothetical answer. :)
Also, science also knows that our sun is just an average star, matured. They know stars, like all other forms of energy will eventually burn out. Some just fizzle away while others go out in bangs. It's said that ours will fizzle. It's to small to implode creating a blackhole. Either way, without it this planet and all others in this galaxy will die. What will happen to God when we all die? All other planets in this universe will continue but we will not. Will God live on or will the idea of one die with us?
Depends on whether or not God is an external force, or the manifestation of the human need to cope with death.
God (in any form) is necessary for continued human existence. If we are all just the sum of a series of random phenomena that are doomed to live lackluster lives until the point that our short existence is extinguished, what is the point of 'being' at all. Nothing would matter. You be a prisoner to a specific point in time, with no purpose as each breath brought you closer to the infinite blackness of non-existence.
Its a tough pill to swallow. Even if there is nothing after life. Id rather look foreward to the endless joy of some sort of "heaven" than accept that my life means nothing and live in misery and fear. So if it is all a lie, ignorance is bliss as they say.
Yes...it's what I believe in. It does not make me right. Comeon...you gotta be able to wrap your mind around that ..you are a smart dude.
So you acknowledge that what you believe in is probably wrong, why! Why settle for uncertainness when you can keep asking question!!!
Gemcee
10-20-2008, 08:16 AM
No--I don't believe that I am probably wrong.
It's selfish and lame to constantly think that you are right simply because you can form an opinion...especially about a topic that NO ONE truly knows about--god. Why would I keep asking a question that no one can answer properly? Waste of time.
I have the opinion that seafood sucks ass...I'm right..that's it. All of you who like seafood are wrong. End of discussion.
No--I don't believe that I am probably wrong.
It's selfish and lame to constantly think that you are right simply because you can form an opinion...especially about a topic that NO ONE truly knows about--god. Why would I keep asking a question that no one can answer properly? Waste of time.
Then your faith is bound, you have my pity...
Gemcee
10-21-2008, 07:43 AM
Pity---LOL..you so crazee.
You, little one, will be humbled by the world someday...and then you won't have that intense need to be right all the time.
I dont have the need to be right, but you need to understand that there is so much more than what you are bound to...
"This development sees no signs of ending, and it is this that leads on a continuous path to growth and progress. Static and empirical knowledge does not exist... this means we must be open to new information at all times, even if it threatens are current belief system and hence identities, sadly society today has failed to recognize this." - Peter Joesph 'Writer and director of the film Zeitgeist'.
Blow-
change is changeless in itself, and is therefore static. Does change not exist? But I also ask, what does exist?
-everything and nothing.
What does paradox reveal? The nature of our map of reality? If so, what premise do you have to prove or disprove GOD?
Lol, Mane, if you want to crap on about psychics and how we are not real and what not (which what he is talking about is mainly true), then shot your self, cause your existence is but a thought, but I personally want my fake reality, what I'am here and now, what this essence of me can feel and be, to enjoy myself and not have to be miserable and shit all the time...
I can also say I'm quite contempt with my attacks on the in slavery off modern day society, I mean just look, all of you against me and my assholness towards the watered down stupidity of the current institutes only increases activity in this diseased dim witted board, full of people who walk through the darkness guided by a light they cant even see, and jerk off 15 year olds who get upset when I say things about the same optima of falsity that raped there forefathers and killed millions in the name of an un-sourced childish fairytale about a crafty homeless fisherman!!!
"Religion is diseased stupidity in the masses" - Voltaire
Lol, Mane, if you want to crap on about psychics and how we are not real and what not (which what he is talking about is mainly true), then shot your self, cause your existence is but a thought, but I personally want my fake reality, what I'am here and now, what this essence of me can feel and be, to enjoy myself and not have to be miserable and shit all the time...
"The realization that life is absurd cannot be an end, but only a beginning." -Albert Camus
So you agree with me then, that knowledge is key?
So you agree with me then, that knowledge is key?
Plato would argue that reason, courage, and restraint are key to harmony in the world of becoming and the world of being.
For what do you say knowledge is key to?
To understanding... Everything...
(We really got to start IM'in as this is getting tediously tiresome)
If a void in knowledge exists, then nothing is the key to understanding everything, as everything ultimately arises from nothing, or void. Although, within particular constraints of reality, such as the context from which your reasoning that knowledge is the key to understanding everything probably arises from, one might argue that knowledge is the key to understanding everything. But then, that is not understanding everything, is it?
I dont see your argument, its simple:
Knowledge = Understanding
When talking about the parallax between something and nothing, I do agree, nothing is something, I understand but making an literary equation such as this, does not make sense:
Nothing (knowledge) = Something (Understanding)
A comparison of nothing in the place of knowledge, I'm not understanding...
I dont see your argument, its simple:
Knowledge = Understanding
When talking about the parallax between something and nothing, I do agree, nothing is something, I understand but making an literary equation such as this, does not make sense:
Nothing (knowledge) = Something (Understanding)
A comparison of nothing in the place of knowledge, I'm not understanding...
That is because the reasoning is intended to reveal something beyond the conceptualizations of the mind's eye; an approach pertaining to the third eye, which is a symbol of enlightenment in Hinduism and Buddhism.
Here is what the Dalai Lama said about the Buddhist idea of emptiness in his book The Universe in a Single Atom--
"One of the most important philosophical insights in Buddhism comes from what is known as the theory of emptiness. At its heart is the deep recognition that there is a fundamental disparity between the way we perceive the world, including our own experience in it, and the way things actually are.
In our day-to-day experience, we tend to relate to the world and to ourselves as if these entities possessed self-enclosed, definable, discrete and enduring reality. For instance, if we examine our own conception of selfhood, we will find that we tend to believe in the presence of an essential core to our being, which characterises our individuality and identity as a discrete ego, independent of the physical and mental elements that constitute our existence.
The philosophy of emptiness reveals that this is not only a fundamental error but also the basis for attachment, clinging and the development of our numerous prejudices. According to the theory of emptiness, any belief in an objective reality grounded in the assumption of intrinsic, independent existence is simply untenable. All things and events, whether ‘material’, mental or even abstract concepts like time, are devoid of objective, independent existence. To intrinsically possess such independent existence would imply that all things and events are somehow complete unto themselves and are therefore entirely self-contained. This would mean that nothing has the capacity to interact with or exert influence on any other phenomena.
But we know that there is cause and effect – turn a key in a car, the starter motor turns the engine over, spark plugs ignite and fuel begins to burn… Yet in a universe of self-contained, inherently existing things, these events could never occur!
So effectively, the notion of intrinsic existence is incompatible with causation; this is because causation implies contingency and dependence, while anything that inherently existed would be immutable and self-enclosed. In the theory of emptiness, everything is argued as merely being composed of dependently related events; of continuously interacting phenomena with no fixed, immutable essence, which are themselves in dynamic and constantly changing relations. Thus, things and events are ‘empty’ in that they can never possess any immutable essence, intrinsic reality or absolute ‘being’ that affords independence."
I havent read it, but are you doing this to fuck with me? Is this actually relevant lol... Are you going, hahaha, I'll just post this up and confuse him like an idiot... lol
---EDIT---
I'm sorry but are we still talking about knowledge and understanding? Lol, ok so what you are trying to say is:
With out knowing anything, we see and observe everything subconsciously that happens around us (which is vital to our existence)and therefor we are understanding the essence of existence without even knowing it, as we are existence. Voiding any reason for a quest for knowledge.
Yes? I'am I understanding?
..........................................?
I'm sorry but are we still talking about knowledge and understanding? Lol, ok so what you are trying to say is:
With out knowing anything, we see and observe everything subconsciously that happens around us (which is vital to our existence)and therefor we are understanding the essence of existence without even knowing it, as we are existence. Voiding any reason for a quest for knowledge.
Yes? I'am I understanding?
Yes, and in that state, subconscious becomes conscious. But, how would that void any reason for a quest for knowledge...especially when there is no definite reason in the first place? It only emphasizes the function through which an individual acts.
So why make the point then, if you see a quest for knowledge, surely it is enlightening to understand the concept previously mentioned, but just explain, how is it of relevance to the topic?
Well, you stated that knowledge is the key to understanding everything, but knowledge is a conceptualization of the absolute from which all things arise, rendering it limited by its very nature in regards to understanding everything; knowledge is key, but not to everything.
I see... ***Scratches beard...
Then why try not to justify a god? Why assume he exists?